Topic: MotoGP COTA *Spoiler alert!*  (Read 443 times)

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Offline The Cycle Guy

MotoGP COTA *Spoiler alert!*
« on: 04/23/17 10:36PM »
Great race today.  Nice to see VR46 in the points lead, although I'm not sure how long that will last.

The .3 second penalty turned out to be a moot point.  However I'm wondering if anyone thought that was a good call.  It sure looked like Zarco nudged Rossi off the line, giving Rossi nowhere to go but out of bounds.  Did anyone else see this differently?

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Re: MotoGP COTA *Spoiler alert!*
« Reply #1 on: 04/24/17 09:51AM »
Great race today.  Nice to see VR46 in the points lead, although I'm not sure how long that will last.

The .3 second penalty turned out to be a moot point.  However I'm wondering if anyone thought that was a good call.  It sure looked like Zarco nudged Rossi off the line, giving Rossi nowhere to go but out of bounds.  Did anyone else see this differently?

Agreed, however there may be some future value in today taking a hard line on racers going outside track boundaries.
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Offline thepretender

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Re: MotoGP COTA *Spoiler alert!*
« Reply #2 on: 04/24/17 12:28PM »
"MotoGP Austin: Race Director explains Valentino Rossi penalty
MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb has explained why Valentino Rossi was given a 0.3s penalty in Sunday's Austin race.

A lunge from behind by Johann Zarco caused Rossi to straight-line one of the S-curves. The Italian re-joined still in third place, but with a slightly bigger advantage over Zarco and closer to Marc Marquez ahead of him.

Crucially, once back on track, Rossi did not back off and give up the time gained.

MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb said: "You can't gain an advantage by leaving the track. There was clearly an advantage because he got closer to Marquez. So we negated that advantage.


"But on the other side, [Rossi] left the track involuntarily. Meaning he was forced off by another rider. If somebody went off deliberately and gained an advantage, the penalty would normally be much more than the time they gained.

"In this case, it was clearly not his fault for going off track. But he also has an obligation to not gain an advantage out of that circumstance. "
Read more at http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/244889/1/race-director-explains-rossi-penalty.html#pCHw2LbJfUskGGWY.99
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Offline luciano136

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Re: MotoGP COTA *Spoiler alert!*
« Reply #3 on: 04/24/17 05:11PM »

What a great weekend! Just came back last night. Cota is an amazing track!

As far as the penalty goes, it should've been deemed a race incident without penalties IMO. If they wanted to give Rossi a penalty, then Zarco should've gotten one as well. Had it been gravel, either Rossi or both of them would've crashed.

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Re: MotoGP COTA *Spoiler alert!*
« Reply #4 on: 04/26/17 02:40PM »
I feel the penalty was wrong. To me, gaining an advantage in track distance should only apply if the rider was not forced off the track. Now if Rossi had passed MM in the next few turns then that would be different and he would need to give that position back.

Offline Parc Ferme

Re: MotoGP COTA *Spoiler alert!*
« Reply #5 on: 04/26/17 06:38PM »
the problem is that Zarco didn't actually pass Rossi... watch the clip again, Zarco had better speed and beat VR to the apex, but then Zarco just parked the bike, he never actually pushed past VR and took the lead which is what he needed to do to make the pass safely.  If Zarco had actually passed VR, then that would have left VR somewhere to be instead of almost crashing into Zarco.

the stupidness of the application of the rule is that now a rider can literally push another rider off track and the victim gets punished!  Oh, hey you are P2 and it's close and you want to win?  Just make a no-chance pass on P1, then park yourself at the apex and roll off...  now P1 will have to run off track or crash and then THEY get a penalty for running off so even if P2 didn't make the pass stick, P2 still has a chance to win because race (mis)direction will take some time off P1 for the penalty.  It's very very dumb.

remember, there's no guarantee you will actually gain an advantage by going off track, you're gonna pick up dirt and marbles and your tires are compromised as well as now you have to navigate parts of the circuit that aren't meant to be ridden on and you have to navigate back onto the racing line. 

the only way to make this "fair" would be to punish VR as they did, and then punish Zarco for dangerous riding by giving him a 0.3 second penalty, kind of like offsetting penalties in football.  however, there should not have been any penalty at all, ESPECIALLY not a penalty where someone in a booth is counting time with a stopwatch WTF !??!?!  how is a rider supposed to know they gained 0.3 or what the exact time is?  that is ridiculous.

what is VERY disturbing is that maybe a month ago, there was an article with Mike Webb who said he "wants the riders to determine race strategy" and yet right here, the 3rd race into the season and already race direction is subjectively messing with the results on a non-issue.
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Offline luciano136

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Re: MotoGP COTA *Spoiler alert!*
« Reply #6 on: 04/26/17 07:14PM »

Agreed on all levels!  Getting a penalty for being pushed off track is crazy!  Zarco misjudged the situation but no one crashed, so just leave it as a race incident.

the problem is that Zarco didn't actually pass Rossi... watch the clip again, Zarco had better speed and beat VR to the apex, but then Zarco just parked the bike, he never actually pushed past VR and took the lead which is what he needed to do to make the pass safely.  If Zarco had actually passed VR, then that would have left VR somewhere to be instead of almost crashing into Zarco.

the stupidness of the application of the rule is that now a rider can literally push another rider off track and the victim gets punished!  Oh, hey you are P2 and it's close and you want to win?  Just make a no-chance pass on P1, then park yourself at the apex and roll off...  now P1 will have to run off track or crash and then THEY get a penalty for running off so even if P2 didn't make the pass stick, P2 still has a chance to win because race (mis)direction will take some time off P1 for the penalty.  It's very very dumb.

remember, there's no guarantee you will actually gain an advantage by going off track, you're gonna pick up dirt and marbles and your tires are compromised as well as now you have to navigate parts of the circuit that aren't meant to be ridden on and you have to navigate back onto the racing line. 

the only way to make this "fair" would be to punish VR as they did, and then punish Zarco for dangerous riding by giving him a 0.3 second penalty, kind of like offsetting penalties in football.  however, there should not have been any penalty at all, ESPECIALLY not a penalty where someone in a booth is counting time with a stopwatch WTF !??!?!  how is a rider supposed to know they gained 0.3 or what the exact time is?  that is ridiculous.

what is VERY disturbing is that maybe a month ago, there was an article with Mike Webb who said he "wants the riders to determine race strategy" and yet right here, the 3rd race into the season and already race direction is subjectively messing with the results on a non-issue.

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Re: MotoGP COTA *Spoiler alert!*
« Reply #7 on: 04/26/17 07:44PM »
Thing is they pulled the 0.3 out of there ass's, time through section 1 was faster then the previous lap but so was the time of everybody else. The following lap time through section one was the same so where did the justification for the 0.3 come from? "Racing is bumping" no harm no foul.
 
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