Topic: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega  (Read 779 times)

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Offline testrider1

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Offline Rogue

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #1 on: 09/18/17 05:39AM »
Killed by a fellow rider. Just about the saddest thing ever.

Two Sundays ago I was there at 9am and there were a bunch of riders (same ones every Sunday) who were ruthlessly fast---passing without warning at high speed at any corner. They were in a group. Every Sunday same riders because I've seen them at the Starbucks at San Juan Capistrano. Ride that way all the time there and it's only a matter of time when you get a big fat ticket/jail/crash/die. It's not worth gambling your life away like that. And BTW nobody will give a shit you're sorry when you kill someone because you were riding too fast.

Offline Snapshot

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #2 on: 09/18/17 06:56AM »
This is terrible.  What a horrible way to go for both of them.  It's like one of them killed the other while "accidentally" committing suicide.

I stopped riding Ortega when it became more about avoiding the (other) idiots than enjoying the ride.  I guess some have to die so that others may learn.

Hoping that they both rest in peace.

Ride on,

J~
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Offline CBRunyan

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #3 on: 09/18/17 07:37AM »
Very sad news. RIP both riders.

Offline thtanner

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #4 on: 09/18/17 07:50AM »
I came upon this crash about a minute or so after it happened. Luckily I didn't see the actual crash nor the two riders. It was clear the road would be closed for a bit so we turned around (attempted aid was already being rendered.) Definitely the right call as it didn't reopen until around 1.

I don't plan to stop riding the road; I just don't see it as a racetrack and treat it as what it is: a highly-traveled two-lane canyon pass.

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #5 on: 09/18/17 08:29AM »
What makes this incident even more tragic is that these riders were so young. I get the challenge of riding fast on twisty roads, I've done it, I do it but I don't take it beyond my or my bike's capabilities, that to me is the most important thing to remember, on the track you can push 85%+ but never on the street IMO.

RIP riders.
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Offline Throttle Chopper

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #6 on: 09/18/17 08:42AM »
RIP to both riders. 

Agreed, Ortega should be used as a passage to get to another "safer" canyon.  Too many unsafe, speed demons on 2 wheels and 4, and distracted cagers who either won't let you pass or are a hazard to others.  Besides, it requires breaking the speed limit to have fun there.  No thanks, GMR is much more challenging/slower-paced, traffic is much less, and generally, riders are more courteous/skilled on that route.   
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Offline venomenon83

Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #7 on: 09/18/17 09:36AM »
On some or most ppl I suppose, it's one of the stages of "growing up" on two wheels, going up the canyons and treats it as local track. I was once a dumb 20 years old thinking I'm the fastest man on hwy 18, Idywild, and Palomar. I'm lucky to be alive.  But if you riding around with nice bike, expensive gear that were bought new and think twice to buy a track day, don't substitute canyon as one. Stick to bike nights, Starbucks and/or work on bikes (I do all three, no shame in that)... better that than ended up dead and took someone that's not at fault with you.

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #8 on: 09/18/17 10:05AM »
On some or most ppl I suppose, it's one of the stages of "growing up" on two wheels, going up the canyons and treats it as local track. I was once a dumb 20 years old thinking I'm the fastest man on hwy 18, Idywild, and Palomar. I'm lucky to be alive.  But if you riding around with nice bike, expensive gear that were bought new and think twice to buy a track day, don't substitute canyon as one. Stick to bike nights, Starbucks and/or work on bikes (I do all three, no shame in that)... better that than ended up dead and took someone that's not at fault with you.
With great power comes great responsibility! I think what helped me as well as some of my riding buddies was having a mentor, someone who could teach and preach what it is to ride a motorcycle. Having someone who can give you the finer points of riding and/or help keep you "in check", can make big difference in your learning and survival rate.

Yes, at 20 something we all think we are invincible but when you see others, often older riders, not able to handle a bike, it sure does make you stop and think, unless your ego is too big that is. Knowing your and your bike's limitations can go a long way in making it a long and prosperous riding lifestyle. I always stress to anyone who asks about getting on a motorcycle the dangers of it, I tell them that it is not for everyone and there are serious repercussions if you don't pay attention or take riding seriously. I will also tell them the great enjoyment they can get from it too but that there is a lot more to it than taking an entry level riding course and hopping on and riding. Glad you were able to keep yourself alive!

Let's ride smart and safe out there guys, I'd like to be able to meet more of you and hopefully get to know more about you. So far I have met a lot of members here and often ride with a few of them consistently, I'd like to keep that trend going.
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Offline Rogue

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #9 on: 09/18/17 12:59PM »
....GMR is much more challenging/slower-paced, traffic is much less, and generally, riders are more courteous/skilled on that route.   

Agree there is way, WAY less traffic on GMR.  That ups some safety factors.

But I don't know if there are MORE courteous/skilled riders there.  Perhaps just LESS riders there compared to Ortega.  But the ratio of courteous/skilled riders versus total number of riders is probably the same as Ortega.  I've witnessed a few boneheads on GMR....

Another factor with Ortega is it's located in a heavily populated and well to do area (Orange County) with a lot more people who can afford REALLY fast bikes.  This increases the percentage of riders with smokin' fast bikes with lack of skills/experience/survival instincts factor there.  GMR has Glendora area as the well-to-do area, which isn't a big enough population. 

ACH and Malibu are the two areas that top Ortega for the ratio of well-to-do population who own fast bikes.  And we've all witnessed all the douchebaggery that goes on there as well.  The more things change, the more they stay the same.  Except now there are just MORE of them out there.

I believe the "safest places" to ride and enjoy twisty roads in SoCal would be (in order): 

1)  Lockwood Valley Rd, Cerro-Norriestre Rd. Just their distance from population centers makes them safe from the weekend onslaught.
2)  Highway 33 - Distance from population center again with very good sightlines.
3)  Little Tujunga - most people avoid it...too tight and narrow and goes nowhere so usually empty. 
4)  Angeles Forest Highway - everyone prefers to stay on Angeles Crest which leaves AFH mostly empty.

     

Offline VFRCapt.Bob

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #10 on: 09/18/17 02:16PM »
Enjoyed everyone's commentary. It is so vitally important to stay in your own lane and on the road. That has to be the minimum standard. Ortega can be wickedly fast and deceptively technical in places. I If you manage your speed it is not hard to navigate. But it is now too congested with commuter and weekend get away traffic that it is more of a pleasant detour to the 15 south than riding destination.
I think the wiser riders here including myself realize the threat of budding fast guys coming at them and avoid or tip toe on the roads they flock to. Choosing your moments comes only with experience. Experience only comes by surviving.
Stop trying to be fast. Start riding to have fun. You get faster over time.
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Offline Rat rider

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #11 on: 09/18/17 07:37PM »
It's one of the saddest incident on Ortega that I have heard of and sadly know there'll be more,
I first rode Ortega in the late 70s on a Honda 350 no railing just over the side they go"
It's called the devils playground,infamous....,
I never had a problem until a week ago and I know better but I rounded a turn with stopped cars I have no abs so I had to lock it up and control a skid pass two before I opened it up to pass the rest,
and this was after I told myself I not going out there unless I'm heading the back way to fallbrook,
my advice to my fellow riders is don't pass in turns and be prepared for stopped traffic and believe it or not yes cars are sick of us and may cause you to go down.

Offline The Cycle Guy

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #12 on: 09/18/17 10:26PM »
And yet another rider died on Ortega Highway today.  So sad.  I've been riding Ortega for 29 years, but this is really making me reconsider where I ride.

http://www.pe.com/2017/09/18/fatal-crash-ties-up-commute-traffic-on-ortega-highway-by-lake-elsinore/

Offline bkrochman

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #13 on: 09/19/17 06:15PM »
Late 70's we used to spend Saturday mornings running up and down Ortega. There was a lot less traffic and the our worst fear was coming around a turn and finding rocks/gravel in the road. Of course our bike were less powerful and the brakes and suspension sucked by today's standards. These days, I have been across Ortega only a few times in the last five years. Always seems so busy and too many race car/bike pilots with far more advanced vehicles. Or, maybe I am just getting too old for that road. But I can certainly see an accident like this happening. Not that I can't see it on Santiago Canyon as well. RIP to those involved.
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Offline VFRCapt.Bob

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Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #14 on: 09/19/17 09:34PM »
Blowing over the double yellows by accident should be scored as an actual accident by the rider. Something needs to change immediately to prevent it from happening ever again. Same with running off the road.  There is no shame in slowing up when in doubt. A long time riding partner and good friend of mine retired after a spat of these occurrences and bumping into another rider. He was an awesome rider in his day, but realized his mistakes could affect others and himself. Sold his bike and retired. I respect that. Rides bicycles now.
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Offline Scblacksunshine

Re: 2 motorcyclists killed head on each other on Ortega
« Reply #15 on: 09/19/17 11:10PM »
3)  Little Tujunga - most people avoid it...too tight and narrow and goes nowhere so usually empty.

Is this road even open? It's been showing as closed for the longest time on Caltran website (over a year) anyone been up there lately?

 

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